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Username Post: Warner Chooses Blu-ray        (Topic#140022)
Paul Carleton 
Founder
Posts: 15040
Paul Carleton
Loc: Fall City (Near Seattle),...
Reg: 04-19-00

Re: Warner Chooses Blu-ray
01-07-08 09:32 AM - Post#838418    
    In response to RangerSix

Looks, like someone forgot to tell Verbatim the news. I am telling you HD-DVD is not dead yet.

  • Quote:

Verbatim Adds World's First 2X-Speed HD DVD Recordable Media to Industry's Broadest HD DVD Media Product Line

Provides One-stop Shopping for Highest Speeds, Highest Capacities, Highest Quality

LAS VEGAS, NV (January 6, 2008) - Verbatim Americas, LLC announced today that it will begin shipping the world's first 2x-speed HD DVD-R (recordable) and HD DVD-RW (rewriteable) discs this quarter. By adding the new HD DVD recordable media to its current offerings, Verbatim now offers the industry's broadest range of premium-quality HD DVD media products. The complete HD DVD media product line, including Verbatim's 2x HD DVD R/RW media and its 1x HD DVD-R DL media will be showcased at Verbatim's CES Booth #S4-36249 in the South Hall this week.


Verbatim 2x-speed HD DVD-R/RW Media -- At 2x-speed Verbatim's new recordable and rewriteable HD DVDs slash the time required to fill a 15GB HD DVD disc to about 30 minutes, compared to about 1 hour at 1x speed. HD DVD media supports
the Advanced Access Content System copy-protection technology.

To achieve the higher performance required for 2x write speeds, Mitsubishi Kagaku Media (MKM), Verbatim's parent company, leveraged its proven dye technology to develop a new highly sensitive recording layer. The recording characteristics of Verbatim HD DVD-R discs are further enhanced by the disc's physical attributes.

Features such as a uniform groove shape, consistent substrate thickness and flatness of the disc have been proven to optimize the performance and longevity of Verbatim media. These characteristics are achieved using a new mastering process, ultra-precise molding technology and advanced bonding techniques developed by MKM. To achieve the narrow track pitch of the HD DVD format, MKM also developed a stamper with a precise groove shape.

Verbatim's single-sided, dual layer HD DVD-R Media has been available in Japan since July of 2006 and began shipping to its North American customers when compatible hardware became available in Q1 2007. Verbatim's HD DVD DL media supports the Advanced Access Content System copy-protection technology.

To achieve the best balance of reflectivity, transmission and absorption for both recording layers, MKM developed a new highly sensitive recording dye. The high recording sensitivity plus the wider power margin of the new recording layer ensure a low error rate, regardless of drive power fluctuations or smudges on the disc surface. Highly resistant to sunlight and heat, the media provides ultra-stable recording characteristics for a lifetime of high performance--even after long
periods of storage--for both recorded and unrecorded media.

Verbatim/MKM is a general member of the HD DVD Promotion Group and a charter member of the DVD Forum.




The fact that they are still making available home recording of HD-DVD is going to fuel a whole bunch of grass roots support for HD-DVD. Mostly because it is less expensive to the consumer than Blu-Ray's burner which is still twice as much.

(Again the reason VHS won over Beta was the cost in the long run.)

You will have support for it in Home Recordings but also Amateur Film Recording. If anything you will see more Dual Format Players, something I have maintained is more likely what it going to be the way this all ends up. A co-existence of the formats not a death of either or. If there will be a death it will be a long way out and it will be because something else comes along to replace or one just ends up being too expensive in the long run.



Paul B. Carleton
HTS Founder


 
GoPSULions 
I Bleed HT
Posts: 1733
GoPSULions
Loc: Monroe, GA
Reg: 02-27-02

01-07-08 11:28 AM - Post#838435    
    In response to PFC5

  • PFC5 Said:
There really is no reason to NOT raise prices now, despite what you think about competition still being there. There was already the competition with the other BD mfg, but now they lost the extra competition from HD DVD. As a business man and bean counter, I know when there is LESS competition, prices go up, and with more competition prices go down. We now have LESS competition so expect prices to go up pretty quick, and Sony already brought the $3009.00 price of the S300 back up to $400.00 and that is for a 1.0 player.

A lot of BD fans that denied this will happen will soon see how it really is. Most already have a player, but now they will pay twice as much for the BD movies going forward too.



Well, I do not see multiple independant vendors that are in direct competition to one another all deciding to not compete anymore because one other group of vendors may start to sell less.

We did not see VHS prices for players or movies increase when beta disappeared.

Sorry, I don't see anyone deciding to shoot themselve in the foot to increase sales for their competitor.

As for Sony raising their prices, this is not the case, as the player was on sale for the holidays, just like many of the HD-DVD players, which are higher now than those sale prices.

Initial units of any new technology will be higher. See VHS/BETA, CD, DVD, HD, PCs, ... Once the products become more finalized, the mfgrs develope much more optimized chipsets/asics and manufacturing. Anyone looking inside any of these new technologies when they first come out and once they become optimized should be amazed.
Gary Thomas
Sony KDL-40V2550 1080p LCD
Sony VPL-VW10HT (in temp retirement)
Dish ViP622 HD DVR
Sony STR-DB930 Receiver
Sony BDP-S300 Blu-Ray Player
Denon DVD-2200
Polk - RT55 fronts, CS400 Center, fx500 surrounds
SVS PB10-ISD Sub


 
David Vaughn 
Diamond Level Member
Posts: 7169
David Vaughn
Loc: Northern, CA
Reg: 07-04-02

01-07-08 11:47 AM - Post#838440    
    In response to GoPSULions

I don't think the "war" is over either, at least not yet.

The problem with HD DVD recorders is that they are almost impossible to find (both the burners and the discs). With the advent of DVR's...are people really burning that many things anymore?
David Vaughn
Technical Writer
Home Theater Magazine
Blu-ray Reviewer
UltimateAV Magazine


 
GoPSULions 
I Bleed HT
Posts: 1733
GoPSULions
Loc: Monroe, GA
Reg: 02-27-02

Warner Chooses Blu-ray
01-07-08 11:59 AM - Post#838441    
    In response to GoPSULions

Well Funai offically announced theri Profile 1.1 player which will retail under $300 this spring.

Full Press Release Here

Player is on display at CES.

Philips also announced the BDP7200 Blu-ray Disc player will be available in April 2008 with MSRP: $349.
Gary Thomas
Sony KDL-40V2550 1080p LCD
Sony VPL-VW10HT (in temp retirement)
Dish ViP622 HD DVR
Sony STR-DB930 Receiver
Sony BDP-S300 Blu-Ray Player
Denon DVD-2200
Polk - RT55 fronts, CS400 Center, fx500 surrounds
SVS PB10-ISD Sub


Edited by GoPSULions on 01-07-08 12:39 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
MrPorterhouse 
I Bleed HT
Posts: 4814
MrPorterhouse
Loc: North Ridgeville, OH
Reg: 12-10-03

01-07-08 12:00 PM - Post#838442    
    In response to David Vaughn

  • David Vaughn Said:
I don't think the "war" is over either, at least not yet.

The problem with HD DVD recorders is that they are almost impossible to find (both the burners and the discs). With the advent of DVR's...are people really burning that many things anymore?


A little bit right now, but moving forward, NO, not at all. If someone needs portable storage, it'll be flash drives. Recordable disc based media is in a transition. DVD has a firm user base, but I can't see either Blu-ray or HD DVD recordable media doing much at all. As Paul said, it comes down to cost, and flash storage is cheap and reliable, and its easily re-usable. About all you'd need to do is transfer something to a hard drive, so disc based solutions just don't seem that practical. Man, does tech move fast these days!
Panasonic TC-P54G10
Denon AVR-3808CI
Motorola DCH 3416 HD Cable DVR(Comcast)
Pioneer DV-588a(DVD Player)
Onkyo DX-C390(CD)
Paradigm Studio 60 v.5(Mains)
Paradigm Studio Esprit v.4(Center)
Axiom QS-8 v2(Surrounds)
SVS PB10-isd (LFE Sub front left)
Cerwin Vega LW15(LFE Sub rear right)
Monster THX Video and Audio Interconnects
Sony Playstation 3 60GB(HDMI)
Harmony One Uber-Cool Remote

Blu-ray Confidence Meter at 100% circa 2007
Predicted Early, Predicted Often
Easy to Call, Obvious to all


 
GoPSULions 
I Bleed HT
Posts: 1733
GoPSULions
Loc: Monroe, GA
Reg: 02-27-02

Warner Chooses Blu-ray
01-07-08 01:16 PM - Post#838451    
    In response to MrPorterhouse

What I want to see announced is the Blu-ray boxed set of Lord Of The Rings. Also since they've also announced the Hobbit, this could be huge in sales.
Gary Thomas
Sony KDL-40V2550 1080p LCD
Sony VPL-VW10HT (in temp retirement)
Dish ViP622 HD DVR
Sony STR-DB930 Receiver
Sony BDP-S300 Blu-Ray Player
Denon DVD-2200
Polk - RT55 fronts, CS400 Center, fx500 surrounds
SVS PB10-ISD Sub


 
theutmostjamin1 
Got The HT Bug
Posts: 100

Loc: NW ohio
Reg: 09-19-04

01-07-08 01:39 PM - Post#838457    
    In response to GoPSULions

star wars origional trilogy would be great.... but it would only be realeased if Lucas could milk us for every cent.
My setup
Klipsch RF-7
Klipch RC-7
Klipsch RS-7
Klipsch RB-75 (zone2)
Velodyne Digital Drive 15 Subwoofer
Integra DTC 9.8 Preamp/Processor
Adcom GFA-7807 7 channel amplifier 300x7
OPPO DV-980H dvd player for SACD/DVD-A
46" BRAVIA® XBR5® series LCD Flat Panel HDTV
Sony 80 GB Playstation 3


 
David Vaughn 
Diamond Level Member
Posts: 7169
David Vaughn
Loc: Northern, CA
Reg: 07-04-02

01-07-08 01:55 PM - Post#838459    
    In response to theutmostjamin1

We won't see Star Wars for YEARS!
David Vaughn
Technical Writer
Home Theater Magazine
Blu-ray Reviewer
UltimateAV Magazine


 
Ralph Potts 
Diamond Level Member
Posts: 6350
Ralph Potts
Loc: Middletown NY
Reg: 08-24-01

Warner Chooses Blu-ray
01-07-08 02:23 PM - Post#838461    
    In response to David Vaughn

Greetings,

The BD50 looks really sweet...


This will be the perfect compliment for those who have receivers and pre/pros that are HDMI 1.1. I look forward to seeing and hearing more about it.

Ralph C. Potts
Armchair Quarterback
My Home Theater
My DVD/Blu-ray Collection


 
Matthew W 
Senior Editor
Posts: 5605
Matthew W
Loc: Spanaway, WA USA
Reg: 06-28-00

01-07-08 08:04 PM - Post#838483    
    In response to MrPorterhouse

  • MrPorterhouse Said:
  • David Vaughn Said:
I don't think the "war" is over either, at least not yet.

The problem with HD DVD recorders is that they are almost impossible to find (both the burners and the discs). With the advent of DVR's...are people really burning that many things anymore?


A little bit right now, but moving forward, NO, not at all. If someone needs portable storage, it'll be flash drives. Recordable disc based media is in a transition. DVD has a firm user base, but I can't see either Blu-ray or HD DVD recordable media doing much at all. As Paul said, it comes down to cost, and flash storage is cheap and reliable, and its easily re-usable. About all you'd need to do is transfer something to a hard drive, so disc based solutions just don't seem that practical. Man, does tech move fast these days!



Anyone who relies only on a hard drive and USB flash/key /pocket drives is fooling themselves if they feel that is secure storage. Yes, I do use both. However, all of my footage is shot on tape. and will be shot on tape. The master tape will always be saved, and I do make DVD backups. I've had two hard drive failures. Had the hard drive been the only home for the video files, all would now be lost.

There will always be hard copies of movies. I want a copy setting on the shelve. Something tangible. If bought and downloaded online, I will burn it to DVD for a permanent copy.

Tape will be staying around for along time. Same with some format of DVD. The few card and hard drive cameras I saw being used for ENG purposes have disappeared and replaced with reliable BetaSP or DVC Pro. Cards and hard drives are to touchy.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Now to the real topic. I'm glad to see Warner do this. I want to get a BR player, and now that they are floating at the $300 level it's more tempting.

I'm not going to replace my entire DVD library with BR. Most of the SD's will stay.
Matthew W - Senior Editor

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Chad T 
Full Upgradeitis
Posts: 826
Chad T
Loc: Vincennes, Indiana
Reg: 07-12-03

Warner Chooses Blu-ray
01-07-08 08:27 PM - Post#838484    
    In response to Matthew W

  • Matthew W Said:
If bought and downloaded online, I will burn it to DVD for a permanent copy.



Make sure you buy the best DVD media possible (I try to stick to Verbatim and TY) and still you might want to make two copies for critical stuff. Some DVD media just doesn't last (sometimes months is all it takes for a disc to go bad).
Main Room:
Epson Home Cinema 720 Projector
Elite ezFrame 106" 16:9 Screen
Onkyo TX-SR805 Receiver
Swans Diva 5.1 Mains
Swans Diva C3 Center
Fluance AV-BP2 Side Surrounds
Swans Diva R2 Back Surrounds
Dual AV123 MFW-15 Subwoofers
Sony PS3 40GB (Blu-ray)
Toshiba HD-A35 (HD-DVD)
Oppo DV-981HD (DVD, DVD-A, SACD, etc.)
URC MX-980 Remote

Bedroom:
Sony KP-46WT510 46" CRT RPTV
Toshiba HD-A2
URC MX-850 Remote


 
Matthew W 
Senior Editor
Posts: 5605
Matthew W
Loc: Spanaway, WA USA
Reg: 06-28-00

01-07-08 08:56 PM - Post#838487    
    In response to Chad T

Chad,

I've had excellent results with Verbatim, Memorex, Fuji and TDK. I do like The Memorex Archival Gold series. I purposely left a Verbatim DVD exposed to sunlight for eight months in a window just to see what would happen. I was pleased with the results and had to scratch it before it finally died.
Matthew W - Senior Editor

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RangerSix 
Got The HT Bug
Posts: 126
RangerSix
Loc: Hawaii
Reg: 09-05-01

01-07-08 09:15 PM - Post#838492    
    In response to David Vaughn

  • David Vaughn Said:
The problem with HD DVD recorders is that they are almost impossible to find (both the burners and the discs). With the advent of DVR's...are people really burning that many things anymore?


You’re right. It’s extremely difficult to find a HD-DVD burner. In fact, I have never seen a HDDVD burner. In our post exchange in Korea, I have seen HDDVD blank discs next to the BD discs, but that’s it. There may be burners contained in the Toshiba laptops, but then again I haven’t exactly been looking for one either.

In regards to people burning discs, I would say there still is a need, especially when dealing with multimedia. As an example, consumer video cameras are no longer those bulky monstrosities of a decade ago. They have become much more affordable, smaller in size, easier to use and capable of producing a high quality image. It doesn’t take much effort nowadays to create and edit a home movie of the kids playing the backyard or that honeymoon to Thailand. People want to be able to burn such events to DVD/HD/BD to share with their friends and family. High Definition camcorders are becoming the norm and people want to be able to view their material without having to dumb it down to standard definition. In the wedding industry, many videographers are now shooting in HD with the option or promise to output to HD media at a later date once it becomes possible to do so.

Another use for many of us is archiving. For multimedia professionals, it’s becomes an absolute necessity to be able to store our video/photography on alternate forms of media. I have over 70k photos and close to two terabytes of video that I could not afford to lose because of theft, hardware failure, or unfortunate acts of god. Using rewritable discs makes it possible to have an extra layer of security in my multimedia workflow.

Well, I could go on, but hopefully you get my point.
Ranger

The beatings will continue until morale improves.


 
Matthew W 
Senior Editor
Posts: 5605
Matthew W
Loc: Spanaway, WA USA
Reg: 06-28-00

01-07-08 09:20 PM - Post#838493    
    In response to RangerSix

Ranger,

I do!
Matthew W - Senior Editor

Become A Club Spot Member! Click Here!




 
Paul Carleton 
Founder
Posts: 15040
Paul Carleton
Loc: Fall City (Near Seattle),...
Reg: 04-19-00

Warner Chooses Blu-ray
01-07-08 09:53 PM - Post#838497    
    In response to Matthew W

See, I told you so. There is going to be a real strong reason for "HARD" saving of the data. We have two professional video people saying virtual storage is not acceptable. I could go on and on with examples of not only professionals but home use and prosumer as well as semi professionals that will need it.

This was one of the key reasons VHS won. The reason that VHS won is often stated as the Porn Industry but what people forget is there is an even bigger demand and that is the private semi professional industry that needs this kind of storage and distribution. Vitual storage can go poof overnight, and it is not a reliable sorce for archiving.
Paul B. Carleton
HTS Founder


Edited by Paul Carleton on 01-07-08 09:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Paul Carleton 
Founder
Posts: 15040
Paul Carleton
Loc: Fall City (Near Seattle),...
Reg: 04-19-00

Re: Warner Chooses Blu-ray
01-07-08 10:01 PM - Post#838499    
    In response to Paul Carleton

Too funny, it looks like Verbatim is playing both sides of the war.

  • Quote:
Verbatim Showcases Expanding Line of Blu-Ray Media at CES

New Technologies Enable Faster Write Speeds, Higher Capacities, Lower Production Costs

LAS VEGAS, NV (January 7, 2008) - Verbatim Americas, LLC announced today that it has extended its support for Blu-ray Disc (BD) technology and will feature its expanded line of Blu-ray media at Booth #S4-36249 in the South Hall during CES this week. In addition to the 2x BD recordable (BD-R) and BD rewritable
(BD-RE) media which are available now, Verbatim will showcase six new BD products scheduled to begin shipping in the first half of 2008. The new products include 4x BD-R discs, Single-sided Double-layer (DL) 2x BD-R and BD-RE discs, Mini BD-R and BD-RE discs and 1-2x BD-R LTH TYPE discs.

The market for BD blank media is being driven by the growing demand for BD hardware.
In-Stat analysts predict that worldwide, shipments of blue-laser players and recorders will increase from an estimated 200,000 units in 2006 to 10 million by 2010. In Japan, Blu-ray has taken an early lead. According to the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), the sales figures from the week ending November 12, 2007 for next-generation recorders in Japan show that 97.2 percent were Blu-ray devices.

With the increased availability of recorders, players and camcorders that support BD technology, Verbatim sees 2008 as the "Year of Awakening" for blank Blu-ray discs. To meet the demand, Verbatim followed a proven strategy for success-combine the latest technologies and the highest quality with capacity and performance choices that will improve the user's digital experience.

Decreased Recording Times -- With Verbatim's 25GB 4x BD-R media, users can record an entire disc in approximately 23 min. The higher performance makes the 4x BD-R media suitable not only for recording personal high-definition video, but also for backing up PC data or archiving photo collections.

To achieve 4x recording, Mitsubishi Kagaku Media (MKM), Verbatim's parent company, fine-tuned the proprietary Metal Ablative Recording Layer (MABL) technology it developed for Verbatim's first-generation BD-R media. Designed to ensure a wide power margin for stable recording, MKM improved the sensitivity of the MABL to attain the higher-speed recording while ensuring excellent recording compatibility and prolonged archival life. Verbatim will release its 25GB 4x BD-R media in Q1 2008.

Increased Capacity - To meet the capacity requirements of true, high-definition video recording, Verbatim will launch its 2x BD-R DL media in Q2 2008. Verbatim 4x BD-R DL media will be launched later in 2008. With two recording layers on a single side, users can enjoy seamless recording of up to 50GB or about 4 hours of HD-quality video on a single disc without having to flip or change the disc.
This makes Verbatim BD-R DL media a compelling storage solution for professional video production, business storage, backup, archiving, radio and television broadcast storage, education, banking, healthcare and government applications. Verbatim is also planning to release 2x BD-RE DL in 2008 as compatible hardware becomes more available.

More Convenience -- Measuring three inches (8cm) in diameter, Verbatim's new 7.5GB Mini BD-R/RW discs combine with a BD-compatible camcorder to provide approximately one hour of continuous video capture time on a single side when high-definition
(1920×1080i) is used, With the ability to record priceless memories directly to a Mini BD disc, users can eliminate the time-consuming process of downloading captured video to their computer hard drive. They can also enjoy unlimited capacity by simply removing the disc from the camcorder and adding a new one. The Mini BD-R/RW discs will be available in Q1 2008.

The highly innovative recording layers used for Verbatim BD-R and BD-R DL media have exceptionally wide power margins. This makes them the best choice for critical applications because it ensures quality recording on the entire disc surface, regardless of drive power fluctuations or smudges on the disc surface.

To provide added protection from scratches, fingerprints and dust particles which can cause recording and playback errors, all Verbatim BD media will feature a proprietary, super-hardcoat finish. Similar to the surface coating technology found in touch panel displays and scratch-resistant eyeglass lenses, the coating technology developed by MKM protects the recording layer without warping the disc. This protective coating is vital in BD disc production because the BD data layer is close to the surface of the disc and is not protected by a plastic substrate like DVD media.

Expanding the Market for Blank Blu-ray Discs -- With the availability of LTH Type hardware and firmware from industry leaders such as Sony and Panasonic, the momentum is already building for media that will enable consumers to move up to the more affordable BD media. Verbatim 25GB BD-R LTH Type discs feature a new technically advanced organic dye in the recording layer that can be burned at speeds of 1x and 2x. By switching from the more expensive inorganic layer used with current BD-R to the new organic layer, manufacturing costs can be reduced.
Verbatim will release 2x BD-R LTH Type media in the Spring of 2008.

Leveraging its many years of success in developing organic AZO recording layers for CD-R and DVD-R media, MKM developed a new organic AZO recording layer for
the BD-R LTH Type media and produced sample discs for testing.

The patented AZO dye used in the recording layer of Verbatim BD-R LTH Type media provides a unique combination of features that range from increased sensitivity to laser light- the key requirement for optimized recording performance, to control the heat interference between consecutive recorded marks for substantially less jitter and reduced degradation of recording marks. The innovative dye also features a wide power margin to ensure quality recording on the entire disc surface.

Unlike current BD-R discs, in which the inorganic recording layer is made by the sputtering process, the organic recording layer for BD-R LTH TYPE media can be applied using the same dye spin coating process as CD-R or DVD-R media. As a result, Verbatim will be able to begin mass production of its BD-R LTH TYPE by only slightly modifying existing CD-R or DVD-R production lines and by adding the cover layer coating process with super hard coat feature. With the investment in BD-R LTH TYPE production less than current BD-R production, Verbatim expects many CD/DVD manufacturers will be joining the BD world.

Verbatim/MKM is a contributing member of the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA).



Paul B. Carleton
HTS Founder


 
David Vaughn 
Diamond Level Member
Posts: 7169
David Vaughn
Loc: Northern, CA
Reg: 07-04-02

01-07-08 10:01 PM - Post#838500    
    In response to Paul Carleton

Paul,

I agree that writers will play a part in all of this, but I think it is too late for HD DVD. I am hearing information that Paramount will be adopting Blu-ray again shortly and Universal is speaking with the BDA about an "incentive" package. If one or the both of those happen, HD DVD is dead as a doornail.
David Vaughn
Technical Writer
Home Theater Magazine
Blu-ray Reviewer
UltimateAV Magazine


 
RangerSix 
Got The HT Bug
Posts: 126
RangerSix
Loc: Hawaii
Reg: 09-05-01

01-08-08 12:45 AM - Post#838507    
    In response to David Vaughn

  • David Vaughn Said:
I am hearing information that Paramount will be adopting Blu-ray again shortly and Universal is speaking with the BDA about an "incentive" package.


Oh stop it you tease.
Ranger

The beatings will continue until morale improves.


 
JamesS 
Full Upgradeitis
Posts: 1041
JamesS
Loc: Virginia
Reg: 01-16-05

01-08-08 05:43 AM - Post#838511    
    In response to David Vaughn

There may be some life left in HD DVD as a burn on demand medium. The idea of releasing independent films on Amazon that way was kind of interesting and may have some marketability to movie junkies.

As a consumer format...well, It ain't over till it's over...but, it's over.

"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd put them on in prime time." -- Lisa Simpson


 
MrPorterhouse 
I Bleed HT
Posts: 4814
MrPorterhouse
Loc: North Ridgeville, OH
Reg: 12-10-03

Re: Warner Chooses Blu-ray
01-08-08 07:09 AM - Post#838513    
    In response to Paul Carleton

  • Paul Carleton Said:
See, I told you so. There is going to be a real strong reason for "HARD" saving of the data. We have two professional video people saying virtual storage is not acceptable. I could go on and on with examples of not only professionals but home use and prosumer as well as semi professionals that will need it.



Then, wouldn't Blu-ray make more sense? At this point in time, a little more expensive, but BD has more capacity, a nice anti-scratch coating, and good CE support, for both portable devices and PC gear.
Panasonic TC-P54G10
Denon AVR-3808CI
Motorola DCH 3416 HD Cable DVR(Comcast)
Pioneer DV-588a(DVD Player)
Onkyo DX-C390(CD)
Paradigm Studio 60 v.5(Mains)
Paradigm Studio Esprit v.4(Center)
Axiom QS-8 v2(Surrounds)
SVS PB10-isd (LFE Sub front left)
Cerwin Vega LW15(LFE Sub rear right)
Monster THX Video and Audio Interconnects
Sony Playstation 3 60GB(HDMI)
Harmony One Uber-Cool Remote

Blu-ray Confidence Meter at 100% circa 2007
Predicted Early, Predicted Often
Easy to Call, Obvious to all


 
mariokrt64 
Got The HT Bug
Posts: 96

Loc: Puerto Rico
Reg: 12-10-01

01-08-08 12:08 PM - Post#838527    
    In response to aukwood

I do not think we have heard the last from Toshiba. They may elect to flood the market with inexpensive players ($99 for basic player???) and let the consumer say the last word. Although this may hurt their profitability in the short term, they may compensate with volume on the long term and thus recoup their technology investment. Other options may involve bundling the player with HDTV sets/XBOX 360 and offering rabates,coupons for more movies, etc., although someone may argue this may just extend the agony, and won't necessarily make the format feasible.
Besides, nobody will like to be on the loosing end after expending so many years and capital developing this technology. A large base of players will surely capture the attention of the movie studios.

The contrary argument is that they may choose to cut their loses short, and negotiate a suitable deal with the other side. I don't think how likely the latter would be, considering neither side was able to settle on a common std., in the first place.
I am not sure if the comsumer will benefit by the death of HD- DVD, since so far they have been the major drivers in bringing player prices down. Blue Ray still commands a premium price, although it has come dowm, although not as much as HD-DVD.
Denon AVR3300
Sansu G5000 Vintage Receiver
Sansui SPX7000 (Vintage) Front Speakers
Bose 301 Sereies IV Surrounds
Kenwood CRS15 Center Channel
Mitsu HC 6800 Front Projector
Mitsu WS65515
XBOX360 (My Son's)
Nintendo Wee (My Son's)
Toshiba HD-D3
Pani DMP-BD-80
Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300 HD DVR
Pioneer PL-520 Turnable(Vintage)


 
MattThom01 
I Bleed HT
Posts: 2379
MattThom01
Loc: Coralville, IA 52241
Reg: 05-31-04

01-08-08 12:31 PM - Post#838529    
    In response to mariokrt64

So, i'm figuring I did well when I got the Xbox 360 add on.

I didn't lose any inputs on my TV. I can still use it to watch the HD DVDs I have, and any others that I pick up in the future (as I'm guessing their prices will go down).

Once that sub $300 Blu player comes out, I'll get it and replace my standard DVD player with it.
Pioneer VSX-815 Receiver
Infinity Primus 150 Speakers mains and surrounds
Infinity Primus C25 Center Speaker
Infinity PS-8 Subwoofer
Westinghouse LTV-37w2
Pioneer DV-588A
Motorola PVR DCT-6412/2000
Monster Home Theatre PowerBar 1100
Harmony 659 Remote
Xbox 360 (with HD DVD Drive)


 
MrPorterhouse 
I Bleed HT
Posts: 4814
MrPorterhouse
Loc: North Ridgeville, OH
Reg: 12-10-03

01-08-08 02:10 PM - Post#838535    
    In response to MattThom01

  • MattThom01 Said:
So, i'm figuring I did well when I got the Xbox 360 add on.

I didn't lose any inputs on my TV. I can still use it to watch the HD DVDs I have, and any others that I pick up in the future (as I'm guessing their prices will go down).

Once that sub $300 Blu player comes out, I'll get it and replace my standard DVD player with it.


Bingo. That's exactly what I did, except for the other camp. I figure, I'm not really much of a gamer anymore, but occasionally, and if the format tanks, I'm not out. Both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 are pretty powerful entertainment devices, well worth their cost if you are interested in even half the features.
Panasonic TC-P54G10
Denon AVR-3808CI
Motorola DCH 3416 HD Cable DVR(Comcast)
Pioneer DV-588a(DVD Player)
Onkyo DX-C390(CD)
Paradigm Studio 60 v.5(Mains)
Paradigm Studio Esprit v.4(Center)
Axiom QS-8 v2(Surrounds)
SVS PB10-isd (LFE Sub front left)
Cerwin Vega LW15(LFE Sub rear right)
Monster THX Video and Audio Interconnects
Sony Playstation 3 60GB(HDMI)
Harmony One Uber-Cool Remote

Blu-ray Confidence Meter at 100% circa 2007
Predicted Early, Predicted Often
Easy to Call, Obvious to all


 
RangerSix 
Got The HT Bug
Posts: 126
RangerSix
Loc: Hawaii
Reg: 09-05-01

Warner Chooses Blu-ray
01-08-08 03:58 PM - Post#838539    
    In response to mariokrt64

  • mariokrt64 Said:
I do not think we have heard the last from Toshiba. They may elect to flood the market with inexpensive players ($99 for basic player???) and let the consumer say the last word.


Toshiba's been there done that. However, I do suspect you will see a flood of $99 HDDVD players, but as clearance items.

And as far as letting the consumer have the last word. Blu-ray won every sales week of 2007, has a 3 to 1 lead on hardware sales, and for the month of December sold more standalone players (despite a higher price tag) than HD-DVD. How much more convincing do you need?

  • mariokrt64 Said:
Besides, nobody will like to be on the loosing end after expending so many years and capital developing this technology.


Well, if you want to run with the big dogs ...

  • mariokrt64 Said:
A large base of players will surely capture the attention of the movie studios.


It has - Blu-ray.

  • mariokrt64 Said:
I am not sure if the comsumer will benefit by the death of HD- DVD, since so far they have been the major drivers in bringing player prices down. Blue Ray still commands a premium price, although it has come dowm, although not as much as HD-DVD.


The market will move on like it always has. Toshiba's pricing strategy was largely artificial (and arguably desperate) and didn't afford CE companies to make a profit while allowing the economy of scale to kick in gradually. It's no accident that Toshiba was pretty much alone because of this. Now with the ending of the format war in sight, competition between BD CE manufacturers will begin to drive prices down as well as increased consumer confidence will continue to rise.
Ranger

The beatings will continue until morale improves.


 
Paul Carleton 
Founder
Posts: 15040
Paul Carleton
Loc: Fall City (Near Seattle),...
Reg: 04-19-00

Warner Chooses Blu-ray
01-08-08 06:42 PM - Post#838551    
    In response to David Vaughn

  • David Vaughn Said:
Paul,

I agree that writers will play a part in all of this, but I think it is too late for HD DVD. I am hearing information that Paramount will be adopting Blu-ray again shortly and Universal is speaking with the BDA about an "incentive" package. If one or the both of those happen, HD DVD is dead as a doornail.




I would agree with you if that were to happen. So far I have been wrong on a lot of this since the incentves seem to be outweighing the losses Blu-Ray has over offering HD-DVD. There must be some big bribes (oops "incentives") that are being offered.
Paul B. Carleton
HTS Founder


 
David Vaughn 
Diamond Level Member
Posts: 7169
David Vaughn
Loc: Northern, CA
Reg: 07-04-02

01-08-08 07:35 PM - Post#838555    
    In response to Paul Carleton

Paul,

The numbers are mind blowing. In fact, if they are true, the incentives that Warner and Fox were given outweigh the total sales of HDM in 2007 combined!
David Vaughn
Technical Writer
Home Theater Magazine
Blu-ray Reviewer
UltimateAV Magazine


 
RangerSix 
Got The HT Bug
Posts: 126
RangerSix
Loc: Hawaii
Reg: 09-05-01

01-08-08 08:23 PM - Post#838559    
    In response to David Vaughn

  • David Vaughn Said:
The numbers are mind blowing. In fact, if they are true, the incentives that Warner and Fox were given outweigh the total sales of HDM in 2007 combined!


I am hearing speculation in cyberspace that Fox never intended to go red, but instead may have been used in some elaborate scheme to lure WB into the Blu camp.

We may never know.

Whatever it was, Warner's move on Friday really appears to have caught Toshiba/MS offguard. Considering all the press these last few weeks of Warner going blu, obviously the HDDVD PRG had a much different impression going into CES. After the Paramount surprise deal, I would have thought the HDDVD group would have prepared for any contingency rather than cancelling their press conference and going home. Poor planning.
Ranger

The beatings will continue until morale improves.


 
David Vaughn 
Diamond Level Member
Posts: 7169
David Vaughn
Loc: Northern, CA
Reg: 07-04-02

01-08-08 08:43 PM - Post#838560    
    In response to RangerSix

Ranger,

The HD DVD PMG knew about the decision in advance (or at least suspected it). I knew on around December 24th that Warner would be making a final decision on January 4th. They had been speaking with Fox since early October. The deal fell apart though on the 27th, when the contract was on the table (literally) and Fox went back to Sony specifically to see what they would offer in "incentives" to keep them on board. Warner has had a standing offer on the table from Sony since September, but had never accepted it.

Warner essentially told Toshiba to either get more studios on board or they would go where the greater sales were. The advantages of HD DVD were in manufacturing and the player specs (mandatory), but with every passing month, BD manufacturing got better and profile 1.1 players hit the market and they continued to dominate the weekly sales numbers. Warner would not go it alone to HD DVD and cause more of a stalemate, which is essentially where we were at 64-36 in software sales. If Warner went with HD DVD, it would have been 50/50 essentially (maybe 52-48 towards BD). But with Fox going with them, they could have dealt a major blow to BD, but in the end, I think they made the most expedient choice in ending the format war. By choosing BD, they received an incentive package with a lot of Zero's at the end of the number and they will single handily end the format war by the end of the month when Paramount announced support for BD again (it is coming soon...mark my words).

My only thoughts on CES, is that they were hoping for the best, but didn't prepare for the worst. Maybe they thought that Fox at the last instant would change their mind and come back to the bargaining table, but in the end they didn't and as they say...."The rest is History!"
David Vaughn
Technical Writer
Home Theater Magazine
Blu-ray Reviewer
UltimateAV Magazine


 
RangerSix 
Got The HT Bug
Posts: 126
RangerSix
Loc: Hawaii
Reg: 09-05-01

01-08-08 10:07 PM - Post#838562    
    In response to Paul Carleton

  • Paul Carleton Said:
So far I have been wrong on a lot of this since the incentves seem to be outweighing the losses Blu-Ray has over offering HD-DVD. They must be some big bribes (oops "incentives") that are being offered.



If there is one thing that irks me about this cursed format war is these incentive deals. Obviously, both sides are doing it and that is truly unfortunate. If the price is right, such deals can easily overshadow market/consumer trends. When Warner went Blu on Friday, I think it was by and large an easy choice for them to make because the market/consumer trends largely favored such a decision. The BDA “incentives” they probably received only sweeten the deal. However, I am not naïve enough to think that things could have been dramatically different had the HDDVD pot been a little more sweeter.

Do I think Blu-ray provided incentives to Warner/New Line? You bet. But Blu-ray would have lost those studios had they not. Bill Hunt of the Digital Bits wrote this:
  • Quote:
It appears that reports are starting to leak online today that Warner was offered as much as $500 million for their move to Blu-ray exclusivity. Now, I believe we told you all last week that money was being waved around. What the HD-DVD camp wants to sweep under the carpet today is how much THEY offered. The HD-DVD camp's strategy in the wake of their failure is to discredit Warner by leaking details of the deal to the HD-DVD friendly online media. The idea is to make Warner feel as much heat as Paramount and DreamWorks felt after THEY took money to flip HD-DVD exclusive last year. I checked out a couple of these sites this morning, and saw a bunch of this sort of thing: "If this is true, we are shocked and outraged to learn that Warner took as much as $500 million from the BDA!" This is no small amount of hypocrisy. You see the HD-DVD camp offered Warner (and Fox as well) a very similar sum of up-front money these past few weeks to flip to THEIR side. In other words, the HD-DVD camp got beat at their own game. Now they're embarrassed and angry, so they're leaking information to try to dust up outrage among the faithful online. It should surprise no one that format wars are a dirty, messy business. But we'd like to remind people today that this format war was FORCED on the industry, on enthusiasts and on consumers, by the very same high-level power mongers who are now pointing fingers, and using online enthusiasts to play their spin games. The fact that their reaction today is to circle the wagons and wage a P.R. war online tells you everything you need to know about the egos involved, and how little they actually care about doing what's right for consumers.



The BDA got caught with their pants down when they lost Paramount. Sir Howard Stringer of Sony said to the Associated Press:
  • Quote:
We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing that for a while, until Paramount changed sides,



After the Paramount deal, the BDA saw the caliber of what their opponent was willing to do to achieve dominance. Once the HD-DVD group had let the genie out of its bottle (with Paramount’s defection), the BDA made a conscious decision to hit Toshiba/MS back with both barrels and to show no mercy or remorse. By all indications at CES, it seems to have worked.
Ranger

The beatings will continue until morale improves.


 
David Vaughn 
Diamond Level Member
Posts: 7169
David Vaughn
Loc: Northern, CA
Reg: 07-04-02

01-08-08 10:13 PM - Post#838563    
    In response to RangerSix

Ranger,

Incentives are all part of the package. Sony DADC has had manufacturing subsidies for all BD companies on BD50 production in order to get certain companies under the Blu-ray umbrella at the start. Why do you think Warner and Paramount went neutral to begin with? From an economic point of view (subsidies excluded), HD DVD is the more viable format. The infrastructure is there and it is more of an evolutionary move. BD is more expensive, but it is also revolutionary in nature and the infrastructure will need to be built up to make that happen. That is why certain companies that sell the BD pressing machines are behind Blu-ray...they want to sell new equipment. Always follow the money
David Vaughn
Technical Writer
Home Theater Magazine
Blu-ray Reviewer
UltimateAV Magazine


 
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